Transcript of Holyrood Justice Committee Boss Aitken’s comments on rape victim : “She must have been dragged about half a mile then Hahahaha”

Scots Tory Bill Aitken MSP laughed victim ‘must have been dragged half a mile’, reveals newspaper’s transcript. BILL AITKEN MSP, the Scottish Conservative’s shadow Community Safety Minister and now former Convener of the Scottish Parliament’s Justice Committee, having been forced to resign after a motion was lodged at Holyrood calling for him to quit, is reported in a transcript of an interview with the Sunday Herald Newspaper to have laughed that the victim “must have been dragged about half a mile” on top of insinuating the rape victim was a prostitute.

The Herald newspaper published today what it calls the full transcript of the interview, after it appeared Mr Aitken, who was forced to resign his position as Convener of Holyrood’s sole Justice Committee, appeared to put the blame on the Sunday Herald journalist for his own political troubles after his comments over the rape case were reported by the Sunday Herald last weekend.

Challenged by the newspaper over what he said in the interview, Mr Aitken then proceeded to deny he had even made the comments until he was shown a transcript of the interview. The Sunday Herald further reported the Scottish Conservative’s current boss, Annabel Goldie, refused to condemn her Tory Party colleague for his remarks, and then apparently “turned and walked away.”

Report from The Herald follows :

Full transcript of Bill Aitken's interview

22 Feb 2011

Last night Bill Aitken MSP resigned as convenor of Holyrood's Justice Committee following his comments to the Sunday Herald about the victim of an alleged gang rape.

In his resignation statement, he said: "By asking a journalist by way of background during his inquiry to me, about the circumstances of a particular case I left myself open to misrepresentation."

For the record, this is a transcript of Aitken's conversation with this newspaper.

Sunday Herald: Hello Mr Aitken, Matthew Holehouse here at the Sunday Herald

Bill Aitken: Yes how you doing?

Sunday Herald: I'm alright thank you, how are you?

Bill Aitken: Oh, fine.

Sunday Herald: Wondering if I could chat to you about the-- have you seen the Evening Times today?

Bill Aitken: Nope!

Sunday Herald: The police are looking for another Glasgow City Centre rape gang. I think from our counting it is the four or possibly fifth sexual assault in the city centre

Bill Aitken: Alleged

Sunday Herald: Alleged sexual assault since Christmas. Police are saying it's fairly - you know it was a brazen attack, it was shocking by the...

Bill Aitken: This one does seem to be a nasty one. Where had the women been, to that Savoy disco was it ?

Sunday Herald: Can you say that again ?

Bill Aitken: Where had the woman been to the suave club?

Sunday Herald: I'm not sure if we know that yet, unless you've read more than i have.

Bill Aitken: Well the address is indicative.

Sunday Herald: It was the Walkabout area. Renfield Street way.

Bill Aitken: Renfrew Street was it not.

Sunday Herald: Renfrew Lane off Renfield street yes.

Bill Aitken: Aye exactly.

Sunday Herald: We're interested in the pattern really. That, sort of, testing this idea that are we are returning to something we thought might have stamped out, which was very brazen attacks in the city centre, lane rapes. What do you think?

Bill Aitken: Well, I really think we need to know a bit more about these. You know, they are not always as they seem to be, put it that way.

Sunday Herald: How do you mean?

Bill Aitken: Errr. Well. If I was a woman up a lane.

Sunday Herald: Right. She was dragged off the street.

Bill Aitken: From Renfrew Street?

Sunday Herald: Yeah this is the thing.

Bill Aitken: Huh.

Sunday Herald: She was dragged off Renfield Street into the lane

Bill Aitken: No she wasn't in Renfield Sreet, she was in Renfrew Sreet, was she not.

Sunday Herald: Errrm. Right... I mean, what I understood she was raped in Renfrew Lane, but she was dragged off Renfield street. I might be wrong.

Bill Aitken: She must have been dragged about half a mile then. Ha ha ha ha.

Sunday Herald: Ok. Either way. I mean there's an element of dragging, which mirrors you know

Bill Aitken: No hold on. I'm not taking the (INDISTINCT) If this woman was dragged halfway through the town then it just couldn't possibly happen. So has nobody asked her what she was doing in Renfrew Lane?

Sunday Herald: Right. What do you think she was doing?

Bill Aitken: Well, I think, errr, somebody should be asking her what she was doing in Renfrew Lane. Did she go there with somebody?

Sunday Herald: Right. What I'm getting at is are you not concerned that there have been four, five alleged gang rapes? In the city centre? In the space of two months

Bill Aitken: Well what is particularly noteworthy in this case is it's three Asian people right they are looking for. Now, Renfrew Lane is known as a place where things happen, put it that way.

Sunday Herald: What sort of things?

Bill Aitken: Well its an area where quite a lot of the hookers take their clients. Now that may not have happened in this case Errrm. But you know. What was happening? Errr... Certainly we cannot have a situation where women are getting dragged off the streets and up lanes and raped. Erm, but you know... Are the police saying its the same outfit?

Sunday Herald: No this is the thing, they are saying this and three or four attacks we are looking at since Christmas are completely unrelated. One was Asian, one was middle eastern and there was a white group. And yet they appear to be such... There was a woman who was literally dragged off Buchanan Street into a lane. Sorry, carry on where were you?

Bill Aitken: Right. Well, you always know there's a lot more to these city centre rapes than meet the eye of course. But this does sound concerning. So what I will be saying ermm [begins dictation pace] there is a disturbing pattern and while the offences may not be related it is absolutely essential that unaccompanied women take the greatest care when walking in these areas. I have little doubt that the police will eventually get a result but it is a disturbing situation none the less. Okay?

Sunday Herald: That's really helpful. Thank you.

Bill Aitken: Right! Ok?

Sunday Herald: No that's great. Appreciate it.

Bill Aitken: Is there anything else you're wanting? Want me to toughen it up?

Sunday Herald: You were mentioning the fact it's an asian gang but I'm not really sure if it's relevent. Doesn't seem to be a pattern going that way. What do you think?

Bill Aitken: If youse got an asians, then you've said you've got middle eastern. If they're asians is that the same outfit? How do you tell a middle eastern from an asian?

Sunday Herald: Well police are saying not.

Bill Aitken: Well they'll know what they're talking about.

Sunday Herald: Great, Right, thanks for your help Bill. Bye.

Bill Aitken: Cheers then bye

Cops claim Tory Justice Committee boss infers Hookers deserve it : Scottish Conservative’s Bill Aitken asks paper “Was rape victim a prostitute ?"

Prostitutes deserve to be raped ? Scots Tory Bill Aitken MSP denies making comments over prostitutes & rape. BILL AITKEN MSP, the Scottish Conservative’s shadow Community Safety Minister and Convener of the Scottish Parliament’s Justice Committee is reported to have suggested a rape victim in Glasgow “may have been a prostitute” in an interview with the Sunday Herald newspaper. The widely perceived inference from Mr Aitken’s comments as a Scottish Conservative MSP, an inference further echoed by Strathclyde Police Defectives quoted in the newspaper’s report, is that prostitutes may put themselves in a position where they deserve to be raped.

Challenged by the newspaper over what he said, Mr Aitken then proceeded to deny he had even made the comments until he was shown a transcript of the interview. (Nice to know the Convener of the Scottish Parliament’s Justice Committee is an honest guy then – Ed)

The Sunday Herald further reported the Scottish Conservative’s current boss, Annabel Goldie, refused to condemn he Tory Party colleague for his remarks, and then apparently “turned and walked away.”

Mr Aitken, whose term as Holyrood’s Justice Committee Convener has seen the least active period of legislative reform for the justice system in Scotland since the Scottish Parliament was re-established in 1997, is no stranger to controversy across a wide range of issues, where to quote one example Mr Aitken praised shamed members of Scotland’s legal profession in the Parliament’s debating chamber.

While Mr Aitken debates the whys & wherefores of whether prostitutes deserve to be raped or not, then going onto deny he even made the remarks until being shown the evidence, his convener-ship of the Justice Committee may well be best remembered for its greasing through of the mangled Legal Services Bill after hundreds of amendments were ordered by the Law Society of Scotland.

Report from the Sunday Herald follows :

Fury as Tory MSP asks: was rape victim a prostitute?

Exclusive By Matthew Holehouse
13 Feb 2011

A leading Scottish Conservative MSP is under attack for suggesting the latest victim of rape in Glasgow may have been a prostitute.

Bill Aitken, shadow minister for community safety, apologised to the woman after making the comments in an interview with the Sunday Herald.

Aitken has been a District Court Judge, Justice of the Peace and is a Deputy Lord Lieutenant of Glasgow. He is also convenor of the Scottish Parliament’s justice committee – which helps formulates rape laws.

Police officers and women’s organisations reacted with outrage to his claims.

Detectives from Strathclyde Police are still hunting for three men of Middle Eastern appearance who dragged the 38-year-old woman off Renfield Street in the city centre and raped her in a lane as she headed home after a night out with friends just after midnight on Thursday. It is the fourth city-centre sex attack since Christmas. Police believe different gangs are responsible.

Asked to comment on the series of so-called “lane rapes”, Aitken said: “I really think we need to know a bit more about these. They are not always as they seem to be, put it that way.”

He disputed the location of the attack, and said: “If this woman was dragged halfway through the town then it just couldn’t possibly happen. So has nobody asked her what she was doing in Renfrew Lane?

“Somebody should be asking her what she was doing in Renfrew Lane. Did she go there with somebody? ... Now, Renfrew Lane is known as a place where things happen, put it that way.”

Asked to clarify, he said: “It’s an area where a lot of the hookers take their clients. Now that may not have happened in this case. But you know ... what was happening? There’s always a lot more to these city-centre rapes than meets the eye.”

Sandy Brindley, national co-ordinator of Rape Crisis Scotland, said Aitken’s comments were “an extraordinary response to an awful crime” which created “a culture where women are scared to come forward and report a rape”.

“We are shocked,” she said. “His attitude is completely out of step with what the law says and what we should be thinking as a society. For far too long there’s been the attitude if you are involved in prostitution you cannot be a victim of rape. Women who are raped need support, not a climate that’s asking blaming questions about what they were doing.”

Aitken also said a lot of rape allegations are falsely made by drunk women – but had no research to back this up: “The police say there’s a lot of drunken carry-ons that result in rape allegations which are subsequently dropped, put it that way,” he said.

He added: “I think there might be fear, if they are worried that somebody talks …and the word gets back to the boyfriend.”

When challenged on his comments by the Sunday Herald, Aitken denied making them until he read a transcript of the conversation. Asked whether there is a difference between the rape of women who work as prostitutes and those who don’t, he said: “Well, the prostitute has possibly put herself in a position of some vulnerability.”

Detectives in Glasgow were“incredulous”. One senior source said: “Is he saying she deserved it? It’s mind-boggling. How will that poor girl feel?”

Yesterday, Annabel Goldie, the leader of the Scottish Conservatives, refused to condemn Aitken, but said she was “horrified” by the sex attack.

“Rape is an abhorrent crime for women, regardless of who the woman is,” she said.

Asked whether she would condemn Aitken, she said: “I’ve no further comment.” Asked whether she “stands by” Aitken, she turned and walked away.

SNP MSP Christina McElvie said: “These reported remarks go beyond the pale.”

Aitken’s comments came as police warned unaccompanied women about walking by night in Glasgow city centre and detectives appealed for witnesses to the “brazen” attack. Police have mounted extra patrols this weekend.

A fortnight ago two men dragged an woman aged 18 into a lane and raped her. In January a woman aged 35 was indecently assaulted and a 21-year old was attacked.

Aitken later issued a statement saying: “I did not intend to imply that the circumstances of any victim in any assault in any way lessens the horror or severity of the crime. I would have deep regret if that was portrayed as the case and apologise unreservedly to her, her family and friends for any such misconception.

“Rape, in every case, is an abhorrent violation and must always be prosecuted with the full vigour of the law.”